Guy Williams delivers a cautionary tale for armchair journalists

Waitangi celebrations, protests and a lesson in hubris

Kia ora and welcome to The Weekend with Madeleine Chapman

Guy Williams has made a whole show off the joke that he is a "volunteer" journalist. So getting publicly owned by David Seymour while trying to act as a journalist is a good and timely reminder not to underestimate the nuance and skill required in other professions.

On Wednesday, following his Waitangi speech being cut off numerous times by passive protestors, Act leader David Seymour held a media stand up to answer journalists' questions. These stand ups are par for the course and Seymour relishes them, so much so that of all the politicians in parliament, he is one of the hardest to "crack" while being filmed. Seymour is many things but he's not unversed in tense media interactions.

Williams, however, is new to the whole journalism thing. Or at least in the traditional "stand with other reporters and ask questions of a public figure" sense of journalism. Instead, Williams's New Zealand Today is at its best when interviewing buzzy New Zealanders (ideally not while they're intoxicated or on drugs) and finding the humanity and humour in darker corners of New Zealand. That type of journalism relies on one-to-one extended interviews that allow for rapport to build and occasional soundbites to be captured. It's also a lot safer. Having done both, I can confidently say that getting a good answer out of a politician in the middle of a press conference is much, much harder.

Williams is politically minded and outspoken about his various beliefs, so I can imagine him at home or at work, watching a media stand up with David Seymour and muttering that the journalists are asking the wrong questions or are being too pleasant or are letting Seymour get away with nothing answers. I can imagine it because I think that all the time, even as a fellow journalist. When you're not in the middle of it, everything looks simpler and easier to do.

But unlike your average punter watching the news, Williams is still in the media and apparently decided he could actually do something about it. Instead, he learned the hard way (the hard way being public humiliation at the hands of someone you probably despise, livestreamed) that even comedians who sometimes do journalism are not the same as fulltime, working journalists.

Williams' first error was in putting words in Seymour's mouth by suggesting that Seymour said Māori were racist. Again, Seymour has said many things but he hasn't said that. Williams' second error was getting angry. And if he was simply pretending to be angry, then his second error was in trying to force a conflict for the sake of the cameras. What he got was two genuinely quick comebacks from Seymour (Williams: I'm not a real journalist but... Seymour: Even worse, you're not even a real comedian) and zero answered questions.

If a random member of the public had seen Seymour talking to journalists, walked past and yelled "you're spinning shit" before carrying on, I would have been impressed and probably laughed. They had a goal (tell Seymour what you think) and they accomplished it with little disruption to the journalists actually trying to do their jobs. They also wouldn't be allowed to join the stand-up and keep yelling at Seymour, nor would their behaviour be used as a reason to further throw abuse at the news media in general.

If Williams' goal was to simply angrily tell Seymour what he thought, he could have done that elsewhere and not taken up media time, effectively derailing his press stand up. If Williams, as a comedian, had asked a pointless but funny question, it would have been mildly frustrating for the journalists there but at least unsurprising and short-lived.

But his goal seemed to be to verbally joust with a divisive political figure and finally get him to stumble in a way no measly journalist had managed to. On that front, he comprehensively failed, and delivered a handy reminder of the specific role of the news media, no matter how much people might complain that they themselves could do a better job.

There is a place for protest, a place for comedy and a place for the mundane long-game work of journalists. The key is to not confuse one for the other, either as a maker or as a viewer. Under the Act Party Youtube video of the incident, with its 70,000+ views, majority of the comments are unsurprisingly disparaging of “MSM” and “NZ Media”. What they mean is news media but who they’re responding to is an entertainer. Williams, in fact, had already been chastised by a senior journalist earlier in the day for recording and speaking over the government pōwhiri.

As Seymour walked away from the media, he threw out a parting gift: "It’s been a lot of fun, and I’ve got a newfound appreciation for the real journalists.”

After watching the interaction play out on the livestream, I do too.

This week on Behind the Story

A crossover special with The Fold: How the media covers Waitangi

Recorded on the sandy shores of the mighty North, guest hosts Liam Rātana and Lyric Waiwiri-Smith (along with regular producer Te Aihe Butler) take over The Fold for a behind-the-scenes look at how the media covers Waitangi. After three days of politician stand ups, haukāinga-led forum panels and more story leads than we had time to cover, what stood out? What did we learn? And how can The Spinoff get a golf cart for Waitangi 2026?

We still need your help

Our extensive coverage of Waitangi 2025 – powered by the nearly 16,000 people who give to us on a monthly or annual basis or who have donated as a one-off – would have been unimaginable before so many of you met our honesty with your generosity after our open letter in November.

We still need 4,500 new members to join us this year to ensure our future so we can continue the comprehensive, rigorous and thoughtful coverage of the things that matter to our audiences.

Please, if you value comprehensive coverage of Waitangi and te Tiriti issues and are not a member yet, make this the week you sign up.

Amber Easby, CEO,
Duncan Greive, Founder
Madeleine Chapman, Editor

Waitangi 2025: A day of kōrero, kaupapa and kotahitanga

To wrap up our most comprehensive coverage of Waitangi yet, Liam Rātana and Lyric Waiwiri-Smith each reflect on the days they spent on the treaty grounds, where te reo Māori flows freely and moko kauae and mataora are a common sight. While government leaders failed to flex influence or presence, a different political group rose to the occasion.

More Waitangi coverage

• Ātea editor Liam Rātana and politics reporter Lyric Waiwiri-Smith take over Gone By Lunchtime in a special Waitangi edition

• Lyric Waiwiri-Smith scopes the freshest fits from the Treaty Grounds on Waitangi Day

• People often claim they just want Waitangi Day to be a celebration. In this week’s Spinoff Essay, Anna Rawhiti-Connell finds that celebrating is what most people are doing at Waitangi anyway.

• Kuīni Ngawai hono i te po has attended her first Waitangi commemorations as the Māori monarch. Liam Rātana reports

The Chinese origins of Sāmoa's most popular dish, chop suey

If you ever find yourself at a barbecue in a Sāmoan home, including mine, there’s 99% chance that sapasui (chop suey) will be on the table. And yet, its Chinese. Sāmoa’s national palate began to be shaped by Chinese cuisine when the first shipment of Chinese indentured labourers arrived in 1903. They were greeted with 11-hour workdays, legal flogging and cut wages. Living in Sāmoa was not at all what they had hoped for, and to make it worse, the food was bland. The labourers introduced ginger, garlic, rice and noodles. But unlike the many instances throughout history where countries have simply adopted immigrant cuisines alongside their own, sapasui and Sāmoan cuisine is a genuine collaboration of Sāmoan and Chinese flavours to create something distinct.

Join us at Bryn & Ku's Singles Club Party

On the day before Valentines, join Brynley Stent and Kura Forrester for a viewing party to celebrate the launch of their new series, Bryn & Ku's Singles Club on The Spinoff. Bryn & Ku will be live on stage at Q Theatre on February 13, with Spinoff editor Madeleine Chapman, to talk about discovering new ways of living and loving and maybe even finding The One.Open to anyone who has ever been single.

What would migration look like if te Tiriti o Waitangi was honoured?

When the whalers in Kororāreka started playing up, Māori didn’t yell “SEND THEM BACK”, but responded by appealing to the whalers’ home government to get their people under control. If te Tiriti was upheld, Māori would have control over immigration. Perhaps if immigration were underpinned by manaakitanga, manuhiri would be seen as more than just an economic contribution or cost burden. Eda Tang explores the idea of a tino rangatiratanga-based immigration system.

The stories Spinoff readers spent the most time with this week

• Max Rashbrooke grapples with his family history and what that means for his own role in the country’s future in a stunning essay, My ancestors were colonisers

• For six hours on February 5, 1840 Māori chiefs took turns arguing for or against the treaty. Joel MacManus brings you their words

• Chris Luxon wants to eliminate the country’s culture of no. Hayden Donnell thinks he could start with his own caucus

• In Wellington there’s been a spike in applications for townhouse and apartment developments that would have been illegal just one year ago, reports Joel MacManus

• Lyric Waiwiri-Smith wonders what will be remembered of David Seymour’s half-heard speech at Waitangi

Recommended reads for your weekend

• Asia Martusia King begs for justice for the stinky plant languishing at Auckland Zoo

• At Laneway, Charli xcx addressed the rumour that she loves to party. Alex Casey and Gabi Lardies were there to assess

• Public transport users in Auckland are now paying more for trains, buses and ferries. Is the rest of the country next? Shanti Mathias investigates

• Liv Sisson spent a night with David Sedaris, thinking about Duolingo streaks, pantaloons and pesky fact-checkers

• Growing up in a Chinese takeaway left Chris Tse with a deep appreciation for his parents’ hard work, but not sweet and sour pork

• Hera Lindsay Bird helps a music snob with a parenting crisis

• The erotically charged Babygirl/Nosferatu double feature and two alluring yet problematic men reviewed by Anna Rawhiti-Connell

• Sports events and other gigs allow for alcohol and young people to be in the same vicinity, so why not Laneway? Duncan Greive gets inside the decision

Reader feedback of the week

• Comment on The first official flag of Aotearoa and what it represents
  

  “If we ever change our flag, rather than inventing a new one, maybe reverting to this one would be the way to go. As the article describes, the creation of the flag was a collaboration between Māori and Pākehā, and incorporates symbols of both cultures. Also, even if a transliteration, incorporating Nū Tīrene in its name should satisfy nervous Pākehā that 'New Zealand' might be removed from our dictionaries and maps. Even if we add Aotearoa, New Zealand is likely to stick around. I'd be happy for the flag to represent all of us.”

• Comment on Help Me Hera: My child has terrible taste in music

  
  “As someone with a boomer Dad who had limited tolerance for pop music, and whose music taste I (as a millenial) now share almost completely, I definitely went through a rollercoaster of music tastes as a child. My favourite bands when I was 6 were both the Psychedelic Furs AND Savage Garden. Turning 11, I felt pressured to listen to the Edge and ZM by friends and transitioned to enjoying James Blunt. But soon with some new friends at high school we discovered our own way to indie and classic rock which allowed me to connect with my Dad anew. It's only now that I have finally let go of my own millenial snobbishness and actually get to ENJOY pop music and LET OTHER PEOPLE ENJOY THINGS. Olivia Rodrigo is sick. Billie Eilish, incredible talent. Also, I stand by the first 3 albums of coldplay.”

Thanks for reading. See you next week.